So You Think You Can Dance Judges
I need just a minute to rant about the judges this last week. Let me lead off by saying that Adam Shankman has been phenomenal. His comments have been interesting, entertaining, and spot on.
I really don’t think I have to say much about Mary. I think everyone knows that I don’t like her as a judge on this show. She just screams too much and doesn’t offer enough value. I don’t want to rehash all my dislike for Mary, but needless to say she was really disappointing.
The thing that has surprised me is that Nigel is starting to get on my nerves this season too. I think it’s a bit his arrogance about dancing and who they’re sending home. I think he really does care about the dancers and about dance, but it feels like the judge and executive producer power is going to his head a little bit.
On top of that for the first time in a while I was disagreeing with the judges left and right. They were lauding praise left and right on dancers that I thought were really disappointing. Usually when a performance isn’t very good at least one of the judges calls them out as not very good. Did anyone else feel this way about the judges comments?
I should also mention that I loved that Adam was willing to call out the choreographers for bad choreography. None of the other judges we’re willing to do that. Let’s hope we see more honesty like that.
I have to agree. 1.) I don’t care for Nigel’s attitude this season. I prefer his lecherousness over arrogance (even though that was becoming unsettling as well.) 2.) I have a problem with the judging in general this season. I don’t like having 3 permanent judges, as I preferred the weekly change up of the 3rd judge. 3.) Way to go Adam!
Nigel has been making me angry too. I feel like he’s judging this season with a bias opinion as opposed to quality of dance. Of course he’ll have his favorites, but a real judge shouldn’t let it show. This really started to bother me during last season’s finale when he said “I think the winner will be Jeanine or Brandon,” before voting was even open! This week he criticized Noelle’s performance saying that she’d probably be in the bottom four, but she was the first to perform? Although her routine was slacking, I feel that Nigel liked seeing her in the bottom four because she was unable to perform last week. Maybe this isn’t true but this is just what I’m thinking.
Johnny Mar,
Exactly. I think that’s part of it. Plus, it feels too much like he’s producing the show instead of just giving his raw unadulterated feelings about the dancers.
i was surprised this week that none of them had criticism for jakob. i guess mary said he wasn’t perfect, but i thought a lot of his lifts were painful to watch. when he would do those assisted turns with ashleigh, it was totally awkward.
i used to think the judges were honest with their opinions, but last season i started to feel that the decisions they made were more about what would sell to viewers. maybe we should expect that, but i don’t like it. i miss hearing from mia and tyce, who seemed to just say what they really thought.
John, I agree with you about the choreography. The thing about the judging that drives me crazy is when these choreographers choreograph a really wacko dance and the judges tell the dancers that the didn’t do very good. How can you dance well to some of these dances they make up. I think Mia and Sonya were the worst offenders of this. They can come up with some great routines, but most of the time I think their far out wacko dances stink. I feel bad for the dancers that they have to dance to these dances and then wear the stupid costumes that they put them in.
Sometimes, I think they should tell the Choreographers & wardrobe that it just stunk and that the dancers did a superb job with what they were given to work with. If you take note, a lot of times the dancers with the waco routines are the ones that go that week.
I really think they should definitely point out bad choreography because sometimes it is the choreography & costumes and not the dancers.
I have noticed that the judges will kind of scratch their heads and say like what was that to the dancers. They really need to turn around and say that to the choreographer.
Sigh …even Adam may be good with his comments and criticisms of choreographers as well….. but I DON”T LIKE having a perma judge. I miss Mia, Lil C, Tyce and the others. It gave the show some variance every week. I must say that I like Nigels don’t give a shit attitude. He says when he’s dissapointed and doesn’t beat about the bush like Mary. Or maybe Mary is “beating” Nigel hence the reason she judges the show. oh well im looking forward to Paula- she will be a great addition to SYTYCD.
I am so glad someone (Adam) is finally calling out the choreographers on some pretty bad dancing. I don’t necessarily think that the waltz was that bad, but choregraphers have been putting out some pretty crappy pieces and the dancers have been taking 100% of the blame (except for the Russian folk dance). The season 5 choreo was WEAK compared to past seasons, especially hip hop. Maybe they just need some new blood, i’ve really enjoyed Travis’s dances and even Dimitri did a couple dances last year too. And enough of the Doriana disco. I know Nigel loves her, but come on.
Yeah Baby!,
That’s one case. Sometimes they need to also say that the choreography was bad and the dancers doing it was bad also. It’s not like it’s impossible to think that both of them weren’t up to snuff. It happens and should be talked about. It just needs to be genuine feeling and not manufactured I guess.
Punk et al,
I agree that 3 static judges isn’t as good as the rotating judge. I have a simple solution. Get rid of Mary and replace her with a rotating judge. Tell you what, I’ll even be generous and say that Mary can be one of the rotating judges.
Have we heard that Paula is going to be there? I haven’t seen any agreement that it will happen yet. It’s just Nigel trying to get her to go on the show.
I think Mary needs to choreograph again. Nigel is getting annoying. And yes choreographers need to be pointed out but with a little more discretion. I think it would be rude to criticize them when the point of the show’s not even about their work. I MISS MIA !
Adam as a permanent judge was a great decision, and I’m very glad he’s around. Out of all the judges, he usually articulates what I feel after watching a dance. What’s great is that he has constructive criticism, so he not only points out a problem, but offers a solution. You very rarely hear Mary or Nigel do this.
I’m also getting irritated with them clearly favoring certain dancers for one reason or another. Sending Bianca home this early (and over Noelle or Channing) was a shame. Last week she proved that she could show growth, and she got screwed by a terrible Tyce routine. I feel like with a couple more weeks we would have seen marked improvement.
Either Noelle or Channing needed to go home. Noelle hasn’t done anything (Vegas week or otherwise) to show me she’ll get any better this season. What we saw in the tennis hip-hop routine is what I expect to see for the rest of the time she’s in the competition. Also, I found her solo to be spastic and desperate. Throwing yourself around the stage does not a good solo make. It wasn’t musical, and lacked flow. I also can’t understand why the judges want Channing to stick around. They’ve been pushing her since the audition episodes, and to me she’s a generic contemporary dancer. She was just as bad in the samba, with some really awkward shaking and arm placements (she seemed incapable of rolling her shoulders back), and displayed a poor attitude by visibly showing us how uncomfortable she was. Given both last week and this week, I can’t see her growing any more. That Bianca was put in the bottom because of having to deal with a horrible routine instead of Channing who simply wasn’t good was hard to accept.
Denny,
I think people can have different opinions. Why can’t the judges say that the choreography is bad without offending someone’s “art.” Sure, they don’t have to be mean, but the choreographers need to be told to expect some criticism of their work.
James G.
Oh no you did not just throw my little Noelle and Channing under the bus. lol Ok, I’m mostly kidding. You’re welcome to your opinion, but I really enjoy Channing and Noelle. I adored Noelle’s solo and was the reason I was ok with Bianca getting sent home instead of her.
Of course, we could talk for a while about whether Noelle and/or Bianca should have been in the bottom 2. I hate the format where the judges determine the bottom 4. I’m glad that baseball’s over and we’re back to America determining “America’s Favorite Dancer.”
Nice points about Mary and Nigel. That’s the problem exactly. They just blow wind up your skirt for nothing.
I personally adored Bianca, and had extremely high hopes for her, although she wasn’t my favorite. I can’t believe she was sent home instead of Noelle or Channing, neither of whom really won me over. Noelle’s solo was great, but I can’t see for the life of me how Nigel could say that Bianca didn’t show her personality through her solo. I thought it was creative, cute, and entirely charming, so … go figure. I can understand Phillip, but I don’t care for that decision either.
Basically, I can’t support the idea of having the judges taking the liberty to escort the first two pairs of folks off the show – sort of destroys the entire premise of the show to begin with, and challenges the judges’ own desire to have the people show their personalities to reach the audience. I guarantee you Bianca would still be here if that were the case. Just breaks my heart.
KC,
You’re right about that. Nigel was off base with his comments about Bianca’s solo. Although, I still liked Noelle’s better, Bianca laid it out there too.
this will be quick- IF AMERICA HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE -> Bianca would never have got voted out. Simple.
John,
I apologize for using strong words regarding Noelle and Channing, although it is true that I don’t find either of them appealing. We’ll agree to disagree there. Anyway, as you mentioned, I’m frustrated by the format of having the judges make the decisions. Sometimes they react very strangely to certain dances and dancers (for example I recall them really liking Jonathan and Karla’s cha-cha from the first episode of last season even though it wasn’t all that good), and don’t have the vantage point that the at-home audience does. They also don’t have as much time to reflect on the dances (or re-watch them) which can lead to poor decisions.
I remember the first thing I thought when I heard that the judges were eliminating contestants the first two weeks, “they don’t want another Evan to make it to the top 4.” Granted this format was used because of the World Series, but it just seemed odd that this was their solution after a season where it was clear that a contestant made it much further than they wanted.
James,
Different strokes for different folks. Honestly though, I’m glad we have differences of opinion. It makes the season much more interesting to me.
I will say that I think Nigel probably didn’t like to have to change the format as well. On his twitter he was complaining about how baseball kind of screwed up his show. I think this might be one of the things he was talking about. I do think however that there is a break that’s not shown on TV where they talk about who is in the bottom. So, they have some time to discuss. It’s not like it’s a live decision.
I totally agree. I am really tiring of the judges blowing smoke up the choreographers asses week after week. Am I the only one who notices that Tony Meredith and his counterpart (whom I like to refer to as drunken Bette Midler) are notorious for pairing their routines with utterly awful and distracting music? Push it? Really?
So Adam also gets my kudos for the week for having the balls to call them out on their work. The judges are supposed to give constructive criticism and it seems Adam is the only one doing so this season.
Mollee?
I agree that she is cute – but I don’t think that she danced with greater maturity this week not at all. I really think that Mollee should have waited to be in a future season. On the other hand, there’s Ashleigh – I can’t believe that they were congratulating her when she continues to “Pull Faces” as Nigel puts it. I think that once America can vote you will find a lot of the judges favorites will be dancing for their lives! I liked Bianca, but I did agree that she needed to quit holding her shoulders up by her ears – drove me crazy, talking to the TV, “Bianca, drop your shoulders!” We are also loving Adam and I agree that we should have Mary as a rotating judge or even Nigel!
Morgan- Dude F*k yeah! Tony and “Bette” need a vacation. SYTYCD needs some fresh blood…what happen to Sparks? Is he not choregraphing anymore? Anyone?
shane is co-choreographer of the upcoming Dreamgirls tour that starts tonight at the Apollo theatre in Harlem. I’d have to assume that’s why he hasn’t been around.
it’s been interesting reading everyone’s comments about this. i agree that adam was ballsy to call out tony and melanie about jakob and ashleigh’s waltz last week (i’d have to agree that i wanted to see more waltzing!). nigel is the one who has really been rubbing me the wrong way this season. usually i would say mary, but there have been a lot of ballroom dances so far so she hasn’t bothered me that much. but it feels as though nigel has been on a bit of a high horse (much like len on DWTS, when is he ever going to give dmitry credit?!) and for the life of me i can’t figure out why. he has a group of extremely talented dancers, give them encouragment and show them the places where they can grow. i am very sorry that we had to lose 2 tappers this past week, but there are still 16 great dancers left, give them some credit!
I so agree with all the comments. If America had the chance to choose who were the bottom couples these past two weeks, there would have been some seriously different choices. I love having Adam as a full time judge, for his honesty and not being afraid to throw blame where it’s due. But I still want a rotating judge. Maybe it’s time to get Mary or Nigel off the panel and make them do a season of choreography? That’s what’s great about the show, is that the people judging have shown us what they can do, but with this format, that goes out the window.
Side note – Is there anything anywhere about the judges opinion on the new stage? I for one, despise it, especially with the full screen background. It overpowers some of the routines.
This has been a seriously interesting thread the catch up on. I agree with John, I like Channing a lot – but it’ll be make or break time when you see with a new partner. If she’s not strong, she probably won’t get many more chances. Loving Adam on the show permanently, and I agree with everybody that it was awesome that he called the choreographers to task. There have been MANY times when I’ve felt that the choreographers didn’t do the dancers any favors. (And of course, many times, they have done the dancers enormous favors). Liz, you make a good point. What would the judging be like without Nigel? If he was just an occasional judge? Would be interesting to see. I’ve never before felt like the judges/producers were invested in the fate of the dancers as much as it feels like they are now. They have a lot at stake with this risky fall season.
Liz,
I don’t want to see Nigel or Mary choreograph either. Maybe they should both move to intermittent judge roles? Nah, I think Nigel is salvageable. Mary’s screaming has completely jumped the shark.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Mary choreograph once, she did great pieces for Blake and Ashlé in season one and Dmitry and Donyelle in season 2, but i wouldnt make her a consistent choreographer, too much Mary, haha.
I’m really excited for this week, they’re bringing in some fresh choreographers from SYTYCD Canada which hopefully will shake things up a bit.
I love Adam as a permanent judge as well. He’s funny and he offers great, spot-on critiques. Although I do miss having rotating judges. Mary is more annoying than ever. I really wish they’d get rid of her. I’m sick of Cat, too. She’s painful to watch.
I’m SO sick of them obviously favoring certain dancers, like Jakob and Mollee. I mean, Mollee? Really? She’s not that great and she acts like a 12 year old. I think she ruined that Bollywood routine.
I seriously think the new stage is ruining this season. Most of the time it overshadows the dancers and it’s very distracting. It also limits the camera angles and the choreography to an extent. I don’t know what the producers were thinking.
@JC?
Dude/Chick i think you’re wrong about Cat. Have you ever seen her make a blunder on stage? This is a LIVE show. She never messes up. SYTYCD canada or other dance show hosts mess up so much. It think that she speaks really well and thinks before doing so hence the smoothness of her hosting. Shes been chosen to host SYTYCD Britain as well.
Id vote to keep Nigel. Mary can go on vacation and for throat therapy. Adams cool but rotating judge please!
The new stage sucks. Bigger is not always better and now they don’t use the stairs and below the stage in their choreography anymore.
JC – I disagree about Cat. I’ve watched a bunch of the non-US versions, and Cat is seriously better than them. She’s salvaged so many judging sessions with a well timed comment or joke, and is a lot easier to listen to. She’s also not afraid to do something on live television (fix someone’s shoe! wear ridiculous accessories another contestant was just wearing! Gush over the cuteness!).
I don’t see why Mary or Nigel can’t do choreography for a group number, and just refrain from judging that week? I say a group, cause it would be unfair for them to work with only one couple. It’s fun to mix it up, and reminds people that these judges ARE judges because they have the talent and experience to back up their criticism.
I just cannot bring myself to like this new stage. It’s not open, so it feels like the dancers aren’t using it to their full extent, because of the walls. The background screen and lighting.. ugh. When I watch them dance, I want to watch them! Not get distracted from their movement by a screensaver-esque background running behind them (Starry Night Routine), or flashing bright lights (Hiphop-Car Routine).
JC,
I’m with you fully on Mary. I will acknowledge that Cat’s had a bit of a down season so far, but she still better than all the other SYTYCD hosts.
I still don’t want Nigel or Mary choreographing. Ok, fine Mary can choreograph a dance or two. There are too many other choreographers that are better than those 2. So, why would I want them doing the choreography?
The stage is off. I liked the steps on stage since it added some variety to the dances. They are missed.
thanks John glad others agree with me as well 🙂
I’ve never watched any of the non-US versions of SYTYCD, so I’ll have to take your word about Cat.
That Set and Cat –
Cat is wonderful compared to the other editions of SYTYCD – we love her! I think this season has just been weird so far, and Cat doesn’t have her cute “perch” since they redid that HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE stage. Did I mention it was horrible?
I think it is all just so different feeling because they are in primetime, and competing with DWTS. I think that it has definitely lost some of it’s charm this year, but I hope it will perk up! (Esp. since we will all get to vote)
I have to say after watching the Australian version on SYTYCD – the US Choreographers are a lot more sophisticated and I enjoy it much more. So, although I agree with the comment about Disco (yawn) and Melanie and Tony – although Melanie is actually really wonderful, did anyone else catch her on an old episode of “What Not to Wear”- she is terrific.
Let’s just get down to dancing and voting!
Interesting I can deal with all the judges. The only judge I ever had an issue with is Simon Cowell. At least SYTYCD judges try to be nice and not flat out rude.
@Amanda
Simon is a legend! My chick loves him! Well she says, “I love to hate Simon”. Thats pretty much how he wins the crowd over.
As for for Amanda Holden wow mmmmmmm *drifts off
Adam is great and everything and I love his comments, but too much of anything kinda gets to you, the reason people are frustrated with Mary and Nigel is because we’ve had a bit too much of them and I’m afraid the same will happen with Adam. It wasn’t the brightest of ideas to make him permanent and we’ll all miss the likes of Lil’C, Mia, Tyce (Punkrocker904, 2009).
As with the choreographers, am glad Adam of saying things as they are, but in general I think most if not all choreographers need to be spoken to. Their work is not as good as before, Season 3 saw some of the best routines ever and now excellent routines happen once in a blue moon.
Big Ups for Cat, she is the soul of the show. Season 1 presenter Lauren Senchez was not as good. I’ve seen the version of Canada, Australia and South Africa and all those presenters are a far cry from Cat
The new set up – Bad thing since the election of Jacob Zuma. The stage is so limiting to the choreographers. We can no longer have routines such as the Rama Lama, Anya and Danny’s contemporary, Mia’s Imogen Heap routine. And those bloody effects maybe cool but they are distracting and take the focus away from the dances, I’d imagine even more distracting for the members of the audience